robinowitsch wrote:I never intended to post here anything as English is not my mother tongue but sorry, I cannot stand anymore all those whiners.
You are whining because chesscube now wants some money. You are really whining because of that? Chesscube charges 5 $ for 500 extra games. That’s the amount people spend for a quick midday lunch. And you are really whining because of that? You say that you love chesscube. But you whiners are not willing to pay the amount of a quick burger lunch at McDonalds to support a thing that you love? I can’t believe that.
Have you seen anything in life what is excellent and free? Honestly speaking, I have not (except of love, perhaps…)
Come on, folks. Chesscube is a business. This is the fu…ing bess chess site on the planet!!! I changed here some weeks ago, before I was a paying member on chess.com. My chess.com membership was 90 Dollar a year (diamond membership). You know why I changed? Because chess.com is the 2nd best chess site on this planet, but chesscube is even better. This interface here on chesscube is by far the best what I have seen in all my chess life (and I know all chess sites, e.g. Redhotpawn, playchess.com, Gameknot, chessworld, chess.com, ICC, chesshere etc. etc.)… That’s why I came here. The interface is pure beauty. When I joined chess.com I became a paying member too within my first 10 games. I can tell you, why. If you are not a paying member on chess.com, you can join only 1 tourney. As most chess enthusiasts want to join 2 or 3 or even more tourneys, you are right from the beginning forced to become a premium member on chess.com. And even in live chess on chess.com, you have only a small chess board as long as you do not go premium. As most players want to play on a big board (like here on chesscube.com), you have no other choice then to go premium. So chess.com is by far harsher then chesscube.com.
There is a saying: there is no free lunch!!!
I absolutely appreciate the decision of chesscube to charge something for playing here. This will make the site even better. Less free members who cheat or chat nonsense, more quality members who really love chess. A real chess enthusiast would never whine only because of some bucks. Compared to all other sport activities chess is a very, very cheap thing. What do people invest e.g. when playing tennis, skiing or any other sport activities. Compared to that those bucks spent on a chess site, are a pure joke.
Basically the story is very simple: if you really love something you should be prepared to pay for it. Let’s show some respect for this site and become a paying member. I will now immediately buy a VIP membership. Not only for one year but even for 2 years. This site is the best chess site out there! (no, I am not the cousin of the chesscube owner, I am from Austria in Europe, far away from south Africa)
It’s showtime. Time to show support for a right thing.
Taking your points one at a time:
1) You are whining because ChessCube now wants some money.
No. Essentially we are whining because ChessCube keeps downgrading its service. I can easily afford a VIP membership, but I have stood back and watched the benefits afforded by VIP membership being slowly taken away. Have you even read this thread? One VIP member complained that he (or possibly she) couldn't play the opponent of choice because said opponent now had too few cubits.
2) ChessCube charges $5 for 500 extra games.
Yes. That's $5 more than many servers charge for as many games as one wants to play. Also, I note from the chat that I read that many of ChessCube's members genuinely are unable to afford $5 (being able to play for free was one of ChessCube's many attractive features, which, presumably, was a key reason why these members played at ChessCube). These same users now have no choice except to migrate to the free servers. It appears that ChessCube's business model may be somewhat flawed, perhaps even fatally. One hopes not, but one fears so.
3) You say that you love ChessCube.
Speaking for myself, I never said that I love ChessCube. Nevertheless, until quite recently it did boast many attractive features: the ability to buy a wide range of videos with the cubits which I was given was what especially attracted me.
Now it's possible to use cubits only to rent (typically for only a week) a much more limited range of videos....
In other words, value-for-money is being steadily eroded. The consensus appears to be that this is the principal objection of those of us who you describe, rather colourfully, as whiners.
A golden rule of good business practice is: don't upset your loyal customers. Unfortunately, ChessCube has done precisely this.
4) But you whiners are not willing to pay the amount of a quick burger lunch at McDonalds to support a thing that you love?
That's right. The main reason why I (and, it seems, quite a few others) are not willing to pay such a small amount is precisely that we don't know what we're going to get for our money
. More exactly: we don't know what other benefits will be summarily removed
5) Have you ever seen anything in life [which] is excellent and free?
Oh yes. For example, there is www.gutenberg.org
- many thousands of free e-books.
As has been pointed out already, there are also many free chess servers to which, evidently, many "whiners" are migrating. The internet is very
competitive. Assuming that ChessCube had a business model, if it failed to take this fact properly into account then it may have been doomed from the outset. I do hope not, but I fear so.
6) Come on, folks. ChessCube is a business.
Yes, it is, and as such we, its customers
, don't owe it any favours. It must find a niche for itself in a very competitive market. If, as it seems, ChessCube is intent upon continually downgrading
its service, then this can exert only a negative effect upon the profitability of the business.
7) This is the [expletive deleted] best chess site on the planet!!!
You are, of course, entitled to your opinion. There is no doubt that there are some aspects of ChessCube which are good: as I said, I particularly like the fact that I can buy ChessCube Cinema videos for download more cheaply than I can buy DVDs.
When I could buy them with cubits, which I could until last month, that was especially great. Now it's less good, but still good.
However, there is a much greater range of videos available from many vendors' websites across the web. ChessCube is now competing directly with other paysites, many of which offer far better value for money--my opinion, of course, but evidently one which is shared by thousands of others. Once again, ChessCube keeps downgrading. Other paysites do not, or at least, not as blatantly if they do.
8) I changed [to] here [ChessCube] some weeks ago, [previously] I was a paying member [of] chess.com. My chess.com membership was 90 dollars a year.
It so happens that I am a non-paying member of chess.com (bryan, if you're reading this, there's another paysite on which it's possible to play for free, I've never given them a penny. OTOH, although I haven't bought a VIP membership of ChessCube [because it represents increasingly worse value-for-money] I have spent a not-inconsiderable amount in the ChessCube shop, so I am a paying customer
of ChessCube). If ChessCube reverses these many bad business decisions, I shall definitely spend a great deal more in the ChessCube shop. If not, I shall not spend another cent....
Now, it's true that chess.com has a number of interesting features, like ChessCube it has a forum feature in which members can participate. Like ChessCube, it offers videos, a daily tactics puzzle (plus a tactics trainer) all manner of interesting features, yet still it has failed to entice me to pay any money to join. In its favour, however, unlike ChessCube, chess.com has not downgraded its service, thereby affording its diamond members less
value-for-money. Is this sinking in yet?
9) I know all chess sites.
I seriously doubt that. I know all of the ones you've mentioned, plus many others, but I know there must be at least dozens of which I am not aware.
I know of this site, but have never visited, so I can't make an informed comment about it.
...is excellent. Buy one ChessBase product, and after that it is free for life. It's also possible to pay for a premium membership which offers additional features. Of course, like ChessCube, among the many excellent products it offers are high-quality videos (ChessBase sells DVDs) featuring many of the same excellent presenters who make videos for ChessCube. Plus stars like Kasparov, Kasimdzhanov, van Wely, Bologan, etc. etc.
playchess.com has never downgraded its service. ChessCube does this repeatedly.
Again, I know of Gameknot, but don't visit, so can't comment.
...keeps sending me emails with the subject heading: "Tchitcherine. We have missed you at ChessWorld.net". A fine site offering correspondence play. I may return there one day.
14) chess.com we covered already.
The consensus is that this is the biggest and best site on the internet. Some disagree, notably GM Nigel Short, who wrote in his ICC finger notes: "Why not try playchess.com? It is better than this nannying club...".
Nevertheless there are always many GMs and other titled players on ICC, plus it has regularly-updated video lectures, trivia competitions to win membership extensions or magazine subscriptions or vouchers redeemable at stores which sponsor the competitions, etc., etc.) For these reasons I have won a subscription to the excellent "New In Chess" magazine (worth more than the price of ICC membership) plus a number of books (bought with the aforementioned vouchers) and
I'm paid up until 2014. The future of ICC is assured. The future of ChessCube is not.
Again, I know of it, but don't go there, so no comment.
17) That's why I came here. The interface is pure beauty.
Again, you're entitled to your opinion, of course. Certainly the interface at ChessCube is much improved even in the last couple of months (as recently as last month, the board had an annoying tendency to go blank in the middle of a bullet game--that appears to have been fixed, which is great). My girlfriend's favourite interface, FWIW, is Dasher, which she uses to connect to ICC. My favourite, FWIW, is BlitzIn, which I use to connect to ICC. Far more functionality in that than in ChessCube's browser-based interface (as one would expect). Easy flipping between multiple windows. Programmable buttons. etc. etc.
Once again, though, ChessCube has definitely improved the interface considerably, which is great.
18) If you are not a paying member on chess.com, you can join only 1 tourney.
Certainly ChessCube beats chess.com hands-down there. OTOH, there is freechess.org, which offers unlimited free tournaments, supports the DGT board, has a much larger membership, offers free lectures, etc. etc.
Nevertheless, as a free member of chess.com I get to play unlimited rated games, read forum messages, sample videos, etc.
Certainly, I've never felt "forced to join" chess.com, as you put it.
19) So chess.com is by far harsher [than] chesscube.com
Not from my perspective it isn't. Lots of free features, including unlimited ad hoc rated games, which is no longer possible on ChessCube, since the latest downgrade.
20) There is a saying: there is no free lunch!!!
Funny you should mention this. A few years ago I moved from the North-East of England to the North-West of England (where I live now). Shortly after I moved, (i.e. about a week after) I took a train to the town from which I had just moved, in order to play in an annual weekend chess tournament. Ok, so from that point-of-view the timing of the move was not great.
For the return journey, I was standing on the platform in the train station, holding my second-class ticket. My train stopped by the platform. From my vantage point on the platform the train presented the appearance of its being composed entirely of first-class carriages, framed by an engine at either end. I entered the nearest carriage. Before long, because this was a first class carriage, passengers were offered lunch, as part of the price of a first-class ticket. Very good it was, too, I chose roasted vegetables, IIRC.
Shortly thereafter, the ticket inspector worked his way through the carriage. I showed him my second-class ticket. He told me I should move to the second-class carriage near the back of the train (genuinely, I didn't realise there was one.). I moved to the second-class carriage. On the way, I encountered the gentleman who had served lunch. I told him that I had only a second-class ticket, and that therefore I owed him the price of lunch. He told me that it didn't matter.
So I got a free lunch.
21) I absolutely appreciate the decision of chesscube to charge something for playing here.
I absolutely don't. I see no reason why on earth the powers-that-be at ChessCube think that repeatedly downgrading the service offered is going to attract more customers. The evidence suggests strongly that I am not alone in this.
22) This will make the site even better.
The evidence suggests the opposite. Fewer opponents (since most quickly lose their cubits). Fewer benefits. Fewer videos. Less of everything that used to be great about ChessCube.
23) [Fewer] free members who cheat or chat nonsense.
Yes. So fewer opponents. Fewer opportunities to play. Lots of bullet tournaments, if that's your thing.
24) More quality members who really love chess.
Just as Zhou Enlai remarked, when asked about the consequences of the French revolution, I'd say that: "It's too early to tell....".
Has ChessCube gained members (overall) as a result of making this change? Why is the CEO, Mr. Levitt, appealing to members for support? ChessCube is in serious trouble
, which is why people without VIP membership are leaving, and some VIP members are complaining bitterly
that ChessCube is worse, and that therefore VIP membership is worth less...(although not yet worthless).
25) A real chess enthusiast would never whine only because of some bucks.
This implies that people who have no money cannot be real chess enthusiasts. I am not entirely sure that that is completely true.
Once again, we are definitely NOT
whining "...only because of some bucks.". We're concerned (genuinely, seriously concerned) that ChessCube is being repeatedly downgraded. Since the move to the new, cheaper server, it appears that capacity has already
been reached, how can ChessCube grow if this is true?
26) Compared to all other sport activities chess is a very, very cheap thing.
Chess is not a sport, it's a parlour game, to which many people attach the status of a sport, which is a double-edged sword.
That aside, you're correct. Buy a chess set and board and you're set. Play free online forever. No longer on ChessCube, though. Except in bullet tournaments, if you like those, and many do.
27) Basically, the story is very simple: if you really love something, you should be prepared to pay for it.
Absolutely. Most of my disposable income goes on chess books, DVDs and, yes, ChessCube Cinema videos purchased from http://www.chesscube.com/shop/
However, because of the evident precariousness of ChessCube's present circumstances, I shall refrain, for now, from making more purchases from ChessCube. Certainly I shan't even consider buying a VIP membership (which I can easily afford) unless and until ChessCube shows some signs that it is in a position to guarantee that I shall get that for which I have paid. Which is to say: when it is certain that ChessCube has stopped downgrading, and looks stable, then, and only then, might I consider buying a VIP membership.
28) It’s showtime. Time to show support for a right thing.
When (more probably if) ChessCube shows some signs of having stabilised, of being able to guarantee that I shall not be swindled out of features for which I have paid, then I'll consider a VIP membership, which, for me, is easily affordable. When it shows signs of regaining sanity (this means you, bryan) I shall make further purchases from ChessCube's shop.
The jury is still out. I hate to waste money. I hate to be swindled. The internet is very
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